Welcome to ATR Psychic radio I am your host Holly Joy. Tonight we are going to enlighten our listeners as experienced psychic medium and healer Carol Lesh discusses the role that forgiveness plays in becoming personally powerful and happy. She will talk about how to go about forgiving others once and for all and why it is necessary if we are to feel fulfilled. She will explain the healing aspects of mediumship and how spiritualists like Edgar Cayce and Eastern philosophy can help us learn the lessons in life that we came here for.
Psychic Holly Joy: I understand that you have been giving mediumship readings for the last seven years and have been a psychic healer and spiritual counselor for the past 35 years and more recently have been giving demonstrations and all-day workshops. Could you tell us what the difference is between a mediumship reading, a demonstration and an all-day workshop?
Carol Lesh: Mediumship is a one to one basis, and a lot of times people call them sittings. So one or maybe two people will come to you and spirits from the other side will show up and then through the evidence that they give you begin to understand who that person is because the sitter, the person who has come for the reading, will say yes I understand that, yes I do know someone who was a milkman, or I do know someone who was very uptight and everything had to be perfect. You just keep giving evidence and then depending on what the evidence is the sitter will say yes, yes , yes or no I don’t know what you are talking about. A demonstration is basically the same thing only it is for a group. So in a demonstration I will get someone here – I will say something like there is a man here he is wearing a three piece suit, he was very professional, his posture is amazing, he was always keeping himself busy, he pontificates, etc. Then someone will raise their hand, maybe two or three people will say that sounds like someone I know and then you give more and more evidence from this spirit until one person says all of that evidence is correct. So that would be a demonstration for a group.
And then an all-day workshop is just sort of something I have designed where in the morning I give a demonstration and then I have people do psychometry for example. Psychometry is where you hold an object or a photograph of someone who is in spirit and you get a partner and you talk about what information you are getting from holding the photograph that is in an envelope that you can’t see or a piece of jewelry you are holding in your hand and you tell the other person about it–it really surprises people. Then in the afternoon for the workshops that I do, I teach people how to give energy healings because there is a huge difference between just allowing energy to flow through you that is healing versus giving your energy away. We just have a lot of fun and there are a lot of questions and answers and people have wonderful experiences .
Psychic Holly Joy: Sounds like it. I have been to a demonstration before in Lily Dale New York and it was just so amazing the specific information that could come through in the process of elimination to finding who the message was for. So, in your experience, how have you seen your work as a medium help to heal others?
Carol Lesh: It’s just been amazing because when I get a spirit I just describe what is going on with him. I don’t realize how important it is for that person who is taking the message who is alive. For example I was giving a demonstration in Lake Tahoe and I talked about this man who seems to be someone’s father and I described him and this woman raised her hand and she was about fifty-five or sixty. His message was “I love you.” And she was just overwhelmed with emotion and she told me after the demonstration, “I thought my father didn’t love me because he never told me that he loved me.” He was the kind of man who loved his sons, but he wasn’t demonstrative. He spent a lot of time with his sons, but she was sort of an after thought. It was very important to him, just think if you are deceased, there aren’t that many mediums and he had this maybe one opportunity to say, ” I did love you, I do love you.” And it changed this woman’s life, you could tell she was just enthralled.
Another demonstration I gave a woman’s husband had passed away and they had divorced before he passed away. I kept seeing him looking in the mirror saying that “I am just not all that.” And then I said to her – “he feels like he is not good enough for you and he can’t believe that you married him.” She said, “He said that to me over and over,” but she did not make the connection that his poor self-image did not allow him to be the man that she wanted and he felt that she should have. It was all about his self-image, he thought he was too short, he was too fact, he wasn’t making enough money and he couldn’t enjoy being who he was. And she had no idea. So it is so beautiful when you can tell the person who is alive that these were the things that happened–this is why the divorce happened. And for this nice gentleman to be able to say “It was me, I was responsible for the divorce because I couldn’t give you the man I wanted to be and who you deserved.” So it is always interesting as medium I am in neutral. I just give the message and see what I can see. And very often I don’t understand how desperately important it really really is to everyone.
Psychic Holly Joy: Those are very profound messages that I am sure certainly changed the perception of the receiver.
Carol Lesh: It takes a lot for a spirit to come to a medium. They have to really use a lot of their energy so it is beautiful when they come to say I love you, or did love you, or it was my fault or whatever the message is it is always very sweet.
Psychic Holly Joy: Are you also empathic, do you feel these feelings that they are projecting?
Carol Lesh: Absolutely, well it depends on the feeling. What happens very often is that there is this enormous rush of love that comes into my heart and then flows out. That has been the symbol for me that this person in spirit is trying to let the sitter or the person in the audience know – “I love you so much.” Now again, as I mentioned I don’t feel how desperately important it was for this woman to hear the message because she is alive and just sitting there listening to it. I can’t say desperate, but it was extremely important because of all the spirits in the room he wanted to be first he just marched right up to me the minute I started the demonstration and wanted to be first. I thought OK, he is an alpha male–so I can feel how helpless this one gentleman was. He had done something to his wife, he had been with another woman and then he passed away. He realized that he could never make it right, there was nothing he could say because she was so hurt. I could feel how important it was, but I didn’t feel his pain necessarily. I totally understood what he was saying because he kept saying, “I wish, I wish I could do something to heal my wife’s pain”. So it sort of depends on the spirit.
Psychic Holly Joy: Right – since you were touching on grief and forgiveness, I am wondering – does forgiveness play a part in healing from grief and how important is forgiveness of the living?
Carol Lesh: I feel like it is very important because if we shut people out if they pass away and we say I don’t forgive you and I don;t want anything to do with you then it is very hard for them to move from where they are we keep them static. You know, this mother did this to me and she is never going to change because she is dead. A lot of times people who have had Near Death Experiences say that I felt everything thing that the other person felt because of my words and my actions and I realized how deeply I hurt someone. And that is very often why they come to us because they want to say “I wasn’t the greatest, I really feel now and I see now and I understand what went on.” So that forgiveness is really, really important and it frees us because we realize this person doesn’t have that power over us because that feeling is in our heart our heart has to have some kind of negativity going on in order to feel this hatred or this staunch kind of attitude where I am not going to move from my decision I am being victimized. So it is important for the spirit so they can actually move on to be forgiven and it is also important to us we free ourselves up to be who we are. I don’t define myself as the daughter who never ?? I am the adult now and go where I want and make my own decisions. Forgiveness is very, very important.
Psychic Holly Joy: Why would you say that people are so quick to blame others and how is this doing a disservice to us?
Carol Lesh: If we immediately blame, then we are in our ego, our higher self. The ego looks out at the world and it says you are wrong and I am right. you are not intelligent, I’m smarter, I’m prettier. We know people who have been that way. I’m pretty sure they are out there by the dozens. They are always saying you’re wrong they take things very personally. If we are in our ego then we can’t allow we can’t say well you have your position and I have mine and this is what I feel. We just say you are wrong, but the higher self wants love, wants to be patient wants to understand and those are the higher spiritual feelings – instead of you’re wrong, you’re stupid I’m right and I don’t want anything to do with you. There is that expression that possibly you have heard, you get to be right, but you’re divorced, you get to be right, but the friendship has ended. So it is really a disservice to constantly say, you are wrong.
Psychic Holly Joy: Absolutely. So, you touched on being a victim. How can choosing to forgive and stopping being that victim impact someone’s life?
Carol Lesh: Well when we look at forgiveness I think we have all heard many many times it is very important to forgive, very important, but how what is the first step. We have heard about books where people have been regressed and in between lives they say, “Wow, I realize that I chose my parents.” and hundreds and hundreds of people have been regressed. There is a wonderful book by Michael Newton called Journey of Souls. His clients talk about that and they have not spoken to each other, but they all reach this conclusion. There is another book Many Mansions by Gena Cerminara, a friend of Edgar Cayce’s and she talks about people having made choices in the past. So if we realize just as the Hindus feel, and the Buddhists feel, and the Druids and some Jewish groups feel and the early Christians. So there are millions of people who have this thought and they grow up with this truth. I have come here I have chosen these parents, I will do these things because they will set up the lessons that I need to learn. Maybe I need to learn to forgive, maybe I need to learn to love myself regardless of who is telling me I am wrong or right or beautiful or ugly. We all have so may lessons. One of Gena’s examples was that when cultures used to put the eyes out of the enemy once they had dominated and won the battle- they would have to come back and be blind and they could choose to be blind or they could say no I can’t do that now it is just too much, but I will do that some other time it is just too much, but I will do it another time. So they have chosen to be blind, it is beautiful.
Psychic Holly Joy: So would you say that people who feel pressure to act a certain way because of belief systems, cultural belief systems, social belief systems that they are also playing the victim?
Carol Lesh: Yes, I would. It is much easier just to say, it is your fault. It is your fault that I am …… That is it, we don’t have to take responsibility. And then we can just say, I am right, be in our ego, I’m right and you are wrong. I can just go on doing whatever I want to do, and I am poor me, poor me , poor me. A lot of times people get a lot of attention because, oh poor so and so. But it does get boring after a while if you have a friend who is always saying, “I am not having a good day- poor me.” After a while, you know, you want to be able to have them have fun with you. So its boning too I think to that person to be a victim because they just stay in that same mode. Seeing the world as being more powerful then they are. Being the object of this thing that is always happening to them. They don’t seem to find their own happiness.
Psychic Holly Joy: Thank You. We have a question in chat. The question being – How do you work through abandonment and multiple abusive adults as a child?
Carol Lesh: Again, I would try to understand that we have a choice. Because of our karma we need to learn certain lessons. We need to sort of balance the playing field. So if I deserted someone or if I have been an abusive person or like I was saying if my country won the battle against this other group of people and then I put the eyes out of those people that is my way of saying, see we are the victors. And that is how brutal things have been that at some point in my evolution, if I want to come back to earth and really evolve the way we can’t evolve on other planets, I can get into that later, it has to do with some Edgar Cayce teaching, then I do need to come back and have parents who are really abusive and unfair. As an adult, I can say to myself, OK, these are my issues I can’t seem to bond with people, I don’t trust people when I yet the message is love. Yet If can forgive these people when I understand that it wasn’t personal they would have done what they did to any child. Then I need to understand that I chose those people because of my karma because of the lessons that I needed. Because I had to live that life where I became the “victim”. This was done to me because in the past I had done this to them. And that example is used over and over again in Gena’s Cerminara’s book. She was a friend of Edgar Cayce’s and people would come to him and people would ask why am I with this man? And he would go into his reading mode and he would go to the Akashic records and see that in a past live the tables were turned. Something that the wife had done to the Husband is now causing her to receive the same behavior that she gave.
Psychic Holly Joy: Great. You touched a little bit on life lessons and we choose our parents and our partners. What about little day-to-day things people we meet, places we work, would you also say that we choose these events and that they have a higher purpose as well?
Carol Lesh: I do I feel that very,very often we create the same circumstances that we have had as a child where if you had to be suspicious – let’s say your mother was using you all the time to give her things or do her work for her or she wanted you to go buy a pound of coffee for mother’s day or she just really wanted to give it away. There are people who just use their children to work or whatever then you will recreate that scenario in your work place. you will see your boss as that parent and you might be suspicious and to the lessons that you haven’t learned you will recreate over and over until you get it. People say I married this abusive man, my parents were abusive I can’t believe I did that. In therapy, therapists will say that we try to heal the relationship that we had as a child in our marriage. Another way to put it is if your parents made you feel that you didn’t deserve respect or you didn’t deserve the best in life then you will most likely, or very often, marry someone who says I love you but then they don’t behave that way.
A lot of times that expression – nice guys end up last. It is because A lot of women want a man or boyfriend or a husband that is much more interesting or exciting because they never know if he is going to call and they never know what he is doing. That is because as a child they didn’t get love or respect and they grew up thinking that I don’t deserve a man who is faithful and who I can trust and who comes over every Saturday they say oh that is boring. When they get more mature, that boyfriend who can not be depended upon, comes over drunk or does not show a lot of respect and he is not really a stand up guy who is going to give her what she needs then she’ll see that boyfriend kind of guy does not make a great husband and that possibly because her parents told her either verbally or non-verbally, you don’t deserve respect, then she will just keep finding men who validate her inner feelings whether it is conscious or not – I don’t deserve. She will make up all kinds of reasons why she thinks the guy who is not dependable is more interesting. But when we learn the lesson and we realize – oh my boss is just telling me this because he wants me to do a better job and we don’t take it personally then that lesson is Poof, we have learned it. Our relationships change and we have fun in the workplace and we do a great job and we don’t blame everybody else.
Psychic Holly Joy: Thank you. We have another question in chat. They want to know if you learned that lesson through personal experience or if it was Cayce’s theory?
Carol Lesh: Both
Psychic Holly Joy: Sometimes it is easier said then done, but how can accepting the shortcomings of others positively affect us?
Carol Lesh: The way that we view someone actually makes a difference so if you go into work and people are angry at you because you did something but they don’t want to say anything, a lot of times we can feel it. So how we regard, and this has actually been proven through physics and quantum mechanics that the way we regard something actually affects it. When we can allow someone to make a mistake or when we regard the mother who couldn’t love us as someone who wasn’t getting her needs met and it wasn’t personal and she never grew up and she never became the powerful woman who married for love and didn’t need validation and attention constantly then we see this person for who they are. Our parents are just two people trying to do the best they could. Again the spiritual teaching is not to take anything personally. So when we see this mother, father or sibling as not getting their needs met or being angry at something else and then it is so easy to just be abusive towards a kid, we realize, OK, they were having a bad day.31:51 Oh, OK my mother didn’t get enough attention as a child herself. Or my mom was poor so now she has a hard time spending money on anybody. Or she’s a narcissist because she is real you know we could look at so many different ways that have come about why this person isn’t a saint. Why aren’t you enlightened mom? Why didn’t you give me what I needed? The reason is because they are just a human being. Because of her shortcomings you can learn how not to be in the world. Once you forgive you release everything and you become the adult and have power yourself. We think oh I want to be a Shaman it sounds so exciting, but if we are just ??? how can we be powerful, how can we want to be a Shaman?
Psychic Holly Joy: It makes sense. Personally I have someone that I have spent years trying to forgive. I was in a long-term relationship with an abusive alcoholic and we have a child together. He is still very spiteful towards me. So I keep telling myself every time I talk to him that I need to react differently. Would you say that if someone feels that they have forgiven someone but have not changed their behavior that their forgiveness is genuine?
Carol Lesh: Yes, I mean you are asking me if your forgiveness toward this man is genuine? Yes it can be. They are continuing to be abusive and they are continuing to say cruel things. It is very important to understand that when people start using alcohol or drugs that very often they stay at that emotional maturity level. So if you start drinking or doing drugs when you are seventeen you are pretty much going to stay seventeen because you don’t grow and you become the victim. They think that the world out there is too much for me and I don’t like what is going on so I am just going to drink and then I don’t have to think about trying to change or being successful and it is everybody else’s fault. I heard an alcoholic say “If it weren’t for that guy at the bar I wouldn’t have gotten into a fight with him.” Oh, it is the other guy’s fault never taking responsibility. The twelve-step program is brilliant because they talk about how if you don’t take responsibility then you won’t grow. You won’t empower yourself to say that it doesn’t matter that my father beat me or I don’t have to become the perpetrator because I was victimized by my parents as a child. They also say how alcoholics and drug addicts are very similar every drug addict and alcoholic is similar in that they don’t want to take responsibility for their life. It is not easy, but the Twelve-step people never say it’s easy, but they do say that it is important to take responsibility for what you have done to other people and your own life. Because if we say, OK I was in Vietnam or my wife made me angry that is why I hit her. It doesn’t make any sense it is just say again that it is the woman’s fault or the spouse’s fault – some women hit their husband’s so I won’t use a gender. If you just lash out with physical abuse they are not taking responsibility. In terms of having to deal with him, you are going to know that he is not going to change if he continues to drink and that you are going to continue to get that behavior from him. So either you have to limit it as much as possible or just understand that you need to talk to him at 8:00 O’clock in the morning before he starts drinking or just try to realize that when you get on the phone or talk to him in person it will be the same old habit that he has and it is up to you to say, “I feel disrespected” or have someone else there or just say. In other words if you can set limits that would be really great. He is an angry person blaming the world for where he is at.
Psychic Holly Joy: Right, that is completely accurate Thank you. You talked a little about spiritualists. Can you define what a spiritualist is and what are there principals?
So it is very similar to the twelve-step program. As a matter of fact the twelve-step program was designed by a person who was a spiritualist.
This person is nurturing and love and when Jesus said, “it is only through me that you can get to the farther.” He didn’t mean the ego me Jesus, he meant, I am love. And then the brother hood of man means that you- my friends, my associates, my boss, my sister, my cousin, my neighbors. Spirits do want to speak to you and say, “I am alive.”
And then the Fifth principal is personal responsibility I think- if you take responsibility for who you are and your situation then you can change it you have the power. Then I can get myself somewhere else. And then compensation and retribution hereafter means that we do enjoy the fruit of our labor we do have to look at the retribution hereafter.
Carol Lesh: I was saying retribution could be where alright, you did this now you have to have it done to you. You have done something so now you know that something must be done to you to balance out what you have done. The seventh is eternal progress open to every human soul. You’re never the person the soul who can’t grow. You will never be not loved by God. And another thing that I absolutely love is when people come back from a Near Death Eexperience they say, “I can’t believe how much God loves me”. I have never felt compassion such unconditional love. That is because God created us and we are a spark of God. Why wouldn’t God love us, it is our free will that made us fall away. We have that connection when we are on the other side we realize how beautiful we are a spark of God. That love is so intense that in the third dimensional body we can’t even feel it. We don’t have the capacity, but on the other side it is latent and extreme and we hear that over and over. Anita Moorjani is on YouTube and she had a beautiful Near Death Experience when she realized that she was loved ???? by God. She came back healed through her vibration. When I was on the other side for that one hour I realized that my fear had given me cancer. She was dying from fourth stage cancer. She said she was afraid of everything. I had attracted cancer to me. I had come here to be Anita Moorjani and not this fearful woman. So it’s our vibration that can heal us and knowing that we are a spark of God like in Eastern philosophy. In Western philosophy and religion says that I am me and God is over there. He is all powerful he condemns me he is judging me I feel guilty. Whereas Eastern Philosophy Eastern religion says you are a spark of God. The spiritualists say that and the Hindus and Edgar Cayce and the Buddhists so it is a beautiful concept that I’m me, I am a spark of God. God loves me. When children have parents who can’t give them what they need it is important to say, OK this mother and this father can’t give me this intense love maybe I will just go to God. There is that feeling that if they can tune in to it it is very, very beautiful.
Psychic Holly Joy: Do you happen to know who the original founders are of the seven principals?
Carol Lesh: I believe that Emma Harding was one of the people who penned them. She was a medium.
Psychic Holly Joy: OK thank you. I don’t know if you heard the story or not, but there was a woman who had cancer and she did not try to fight it or anything she just spent her time taking prayer request and praying for others and through this her cancer diminished because she spent all of her time in a high vibration.
Carol Lesh: Right, exactly you just said it. Edgar Cayce said when you meditate you direct every cell of your body to God you connect to God and also through prayer. This woman must have been doing this. When you say God, “I want to have you please bring joy and love to these people” you’re talking to God. Just like if you are walking down the street and somebody is on the other side and you say “Hey Barbara” she will respond. So when you say “God” he will respond. Personally one night I had a migraine and I could not do anything literally nothing but lay down and close my eyes and pray ” Please take this pain from me”. The pain was so intense that I literally couldn’t open my eyes. After three hours, in a nanosecond a cross appeared in my minds eye. There was a symbol where the two lines of the cross came together it was too small to see. A light came out of the symbol into my heart and my migraine disappeared. I know that God or Jesus or I pray to Mary, I pray to God I pray to Jesus and after a couple of hours there was that miracle. I personally know that when we say, “God – I have a prayer please bring love”. God will listen to us. That is exactly right what you said was really beautiful. I have a friend who I met through the Edgar Cayce organization and she told me pretty much what you said. She had melanoma on her leg and the doctor said, sorry, just go home to die. She asked God ‘What can I do in the time I have left” and she hear a voice say “pray for those who pray for you.” She was very organized she was a retired school teacher. She had her family Monday, her friends Tuesday, her church group Wednesday. She told me she had this list and she just prayed and prayed and prayed. She was cured and this is thirty years later and she is still sending me Christmas cards. So the power of prayer is just phenomenal. In fact, a Doctor Larry Dossey wrote a book and tried to debunk prayer. He did a double-blind study with a group who knew they were being prayed for and a group that didn’t know they were being prayed for. He found out that instead of proving that prayer was just a waste of time he said that if the AMA could bottle prayers they would become millionaires because prayer is that effective. The people who had operations got better faster and did much better in the end and did not have as many complications and he could not believe it. He is now a very spiritual person because of the study and research that he did. So that is beautiful, I love your story thanks.
Psychic Holly Joy: Thank you. So would you say that Eastern philosophy coincides with soul contracts? I am referring to the belief that before we take human form we create contracts to interact with other people like you mentioned such as our parents and partners for the purpose of having an experience or experiences that further the development of our souls.
Carol Lesh: Definitely. it definitely would and our existence is continuous. Edgar Cayce actually said that we actually have sojourns on other planets. That we have lifetimes, we have experiences on other planets. He says Mars is all about male energy Venus is learning about female energy and Jupiter is all about the higher mind and for group interactions and that Hitler has gone to Saturn to be reformatted. That’s when people just really need to start over again. Saturn is a place where people just need to work. So, we learn our existence is just constant learning, growing and becoming more of who we truly are. We are all beautiful. You have heard the expression, and it is so true, that we are spiritual beings having an earthly experience. That is what is so beautiful to see that this is one lifetime that we come here to grow and through forgiving and through acceptance that this other person is just who they are. I love this expression “It is what it is.” When I went over there to see my mom, she was in a bad mood, it is what it is. To say what do I want to do right now, I am making these decisions right now. I am not at the mercy of someone else’s mood. We can just enjoy who we are and appreciate what we do have instead of saying, I don’t have this, I don’t have that. That is that victim mentality. So I think you are right, yes I agree that we do choose and we do come back over and over. A lot of times we maybe just have an agreement with someone I really want to be with you. There was a war and I couldn’t be with you so let’s come back and be together again. So it is very interesting Gina Cerminara’s book talks about all of these different examples of how people ended up together it is fascinating because everything is interwoven. That need for love that need to be with that one person. It is interesting that people say “Oh, that woman just wants to get married, that is all she talks about”, but maybe that is why she came here. So like feminism says just get a job and be independent, but there are people who came here just because they do want to have this person in their life. We shouldn’t be judging we should just say, well that is what they want. Works for them.
Psychic Holly Joy: So, about soul contracts if we make these agreements before coming into physical form would you then say that it is accurate that we still have freewill and that every choice we make, be it yesterday today or in the future, is our own?
Carol Lesh: Yes, I would say that our karma has brought us to where we are right now. It is the freewill that we use right now and in the future that will create karma for us either good or not so good. Right now we are choosing our next lifetime, If we can forgive we don’t have to come back and do it all over again. They say that people who have had NDS that if you commit suicide then you have to come back and do it all over again because you did not learn that lesson. They say it is sort of like if you are in the 3rd grade and all of your classmates go on to the 4th grade and you have to come back and do the 3rd grade all over again it is just a little bit more difficult. You just ???? it really clicked with me. We have come here to do something, to learn something. If we just say, I am just going to be on drugs or alcohol then we are not really wanting to learn that lesson. Oh, I changed my mind, forget it, I don’t know it is too hard. Life is hard, but it can also be beautiful if we can focus on other things besides our problem because we are always going to have problems. If you say, I lost my son, I lost my son, I lost my son. Then what about your husband, what about your other children what about your friends? You can enjoy, at some point, as the the years go by you can enjoy life. People do want you in their world to bring joy. I think definitely we have karma, we have freewill but we have to understand that as we sow so shall we reap. So do you want a life review where you have been really nice to people and patient and loving or do you want to feel their pain because you have been abusive? Your parents and your spouse will understand what they’ve done.
Psychic Holly Joy: Could you give an example of how people tend to project their own needs and desires onto the people around them?
Carol Lesh: Oh certainly. There is a lovely saying, ‘ when the pickpocket sees a saint all the pickpocket sees are the saints` pockets’. So the factory owner projects on his workers I need money, work faster, take a shorter lunch. So instead of coming from a place of love and sharing and wanting these people to have a good life, he projects his need for a lot of money to be successful on to those people. This is the planet of projection and cause and affect. I am constantly looking out in the world and projecting my own issues onto other people. As I was saying, if we have a parent who does not want to be a parent or didn’t get enough attention, they can’t give attention to their children because they are the ones who want attention. So they will end up projecting onto their children, you are taking attention away from me. I don’t want to be a parent. I am tired of all of this instead of saying, well I had you I need to step up and be a good mom. They will just project onto their child, you are boring and you are wasting my time. It is sad, but we do, we project onto other people–who we are what we need.
Psychic Holly Joy: Do you feel this is why so many people are unhappy, because they are assigning someone else to the responsibility for their own happiness?
Carol Lesh: Absolutely. Like I was saying, my mother should have done this so I can’t do that. Instead of saying it is my mind, it is my brain. We all have patterns, but Edgar Cayce and the Spiritualists say, ” mind is the builder thoughts are things”. Those are two incredibly empowering sentences. Your mind will build your reality and your thoughts are things. As I see the world then that is how it is. So if I see the world as people trying their best then I am going to give people a break. But if I see the world as everyone is out to get me then I am going to walk in with an attitude and assumption and project my negativity and it will come back to me.
Psychic Holly Joy: For someone who has somebody that they want to forgive, what are the steps they can take to do this?
Carol Lesh: So you are saying you want to forgive someone? Understand that the way they treat you isn’t personal. That is how they behave in the world and it is up to us to set those limits. It is up to us to say I am not happy with the way you treat me and I didn’t come here to be treated this way and if it continues, it is not going to work. Now children don’t have that option, but I am saying as adults. To understand to forgive them we have to understand again that we have contracted with them to be with them. They are going to show us how we felt in the past that it was OK to treat us. Because you married this man and there might have been some signs that things were not going to go that well. It is important to say – I married this man, I said I do, but now I see that this isn’t working and I don’t want it to be this way. So I am going to back off and limit it as much as possible. His world, his reality before he met me was such that he needed to drink because he felt that he was a victim. I can forgive him because he is weak. He is not going to be able to stop drinking.
Psychic Holly Joy: There is a comment in chat that I will bring up and maybe you can respond. They say there is a difference between blaming someone and telling the truth. Would you say it is a matter of perception?
Carol Lesh: Yes, and it is a matter of how we word what we are going to word. If we say, you did this you made me angry then that is a matter of perception. But the truth is that they pushed your buttons. Another person who does not have that same button will have a completely different reaction. So if someone does something and I am not sure what their example would be we can say, “That is very disrespectful”, but it doesn’t have to make us dislike them or hit them or whatever. We can look at what their behavior is objectively and not take it personally and then say, “this is not OK.” If I blame them, then I am saying that they did it to me to hurt me and even if they did that is on them. That feeling of hatred or prejudice is in their heart. If it is not in my heart to be hateful, then I can’t dislike them. It is unfortunate that they are behaving this way, but I can’t take it personally. I can’t feel that hatred back at them unless it is in my heart to feel that negative feeling. That is why Jesus said,”Forgive these people they don’t know what they are doing.” He understood that their level of consciousnesses was such that they were afraid of him or saw him as being bad when in truth he wasn’t, but they projected on to him their fears. I hope that answers the question.
Psychic Holly Joy: It does that makes a lot of sense. Before we go is there anything else that you wanted to say about this topic? Also can you tell us a little bit more about what you do and how people can reach you and stay up to date with your events?
Carol Lesh: Yes, I think I have covered everything. I’d love to have people email me if they would like, if they have any questions, that is the best way to get a hold of me. I am giving a workshop, but it is in El Cerrito, CA on May 16th that is the workshop that we talked about. I am giving a demonstration in Lake Tahoe through the Edgar Cayce Organization the best way to see information on that is at EdgarCayceca.org for the workshop May 16th. In August the Lake Tahoe workshop is through the National Edgar Cayce, EdgarCayce.org. on the event page. I also give private readings, psychic and mediumship readings and healing. My email address is firstname.lastname@example.org.
Psychic Holly Joy: Thank you so much for coming tonight. It has been a very powerful message about forgiveness, and I am sure it will reach the right people either tonight or when they need it down the road.
Carol Lesh: I am very happy to have had the opportunity to talk to you, thank you.
Psychic Holly Joy: Have a good night.